- FROM HANSARD
- (Citation: HL Deb, 22 October 2012, c48)
BARONESS MEACHER, MOVING AMENDMENT NUMBER 6
She claims that provisions will tend to criminalise 'innocent people'.
The people who may find themselves charged with an offence will be single and vulnerable people entitled to a discount assessed on the basis of their circumstances.
Well that is a surprise.
If Clause 13 of the Bill is passed without our amendments, council tax payers who are unaware of Regulations 3, 10 and 11-surely nearly all of us-and who therefore fail to act in accordance with them become potentially liable to a criminal prosecution.
This matter is even more serious as many councils cannot accurately state which assumptions one is supposed to correct.
Alan Murdie, a barrister who edited the CPAG handbook on council tax for 14 years and who has kindly briefed me for this debate, is concerned that this situation will be made worse because the standards of administration of council tax are apparently worse than at any time in the past 20 years. He is well placed to make that judgment. At best, says Alan Murdie, people will be pursued in error and, at worst-I must say that this shocked me, but I trust this person who deals with these situations all the time-the provisions will be used to extort money from people by unscrupulous officials. Mr Murdie says:
"The council tax is the most complicated local taxation system ever devised. Even after 20 years many aspects of the tax are unclear and open to argument and errors are rife throughout the system. The council tax has gone beyond what ordinary members of the public can understand".
Generally many points to Baroness Hollis, but she backed down when one might have felt she kept to her point.
Lord McKenzie of Luton, who spoke in the Lords debate, would appear to be a good person to lobby on Audit Commission misrepresentation as he has been an accountant and worked at the Dept for Communities.
Baroness Hanham who also spoke works a lot in the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea which already puts misinfomation about council tax out, and would therefore benefit from some independent review of its practices, of the general sort which the amendment was suggesting, perhaps. In fact she used to be on this council.
Lord Tope is linked with the London Borough of Sutton. No immediate information on whether it currently complies with CT discount administration. Frequent reference to a 25% 'single person discount' and proposals to cut it, apparently because this would help to avoid additional taxes on the poorest.
The government denies that the provisions are intended to apply to individuals. One would have to check carefully to see whether what the provisions say corresponds with what the government says about them, as we have seen that often people draft legislation and tell the government something about it and when it is passed they claim that the law says something completely different.
Generally many points to Baroness Hollis, but she backed down when one might have felt she kept to her point.
Lord McKenzie of Luton, who spoke in the Lords debate, would appear to be a good person to lobby on Audit Commission misrepresentation as he has been an accountant and worked at the Dept for Communities.
Baroness Hanham who also spoke works a lot in the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea which already puts misinfomation about council tax out, and would therefore benefit from some independent review of its practices, of the general sort which the amendment was suggesting, perhaps. In fact she used to be on this council.
Lord Tope is linked with the London Borough of Sutton. No immediate information on whether it currently complies with CT discount administration. Frequent reference to a 25% 'single person discount' and proposals to cut it, apparently because this would help to avoid additional taxes on the poorest.
The government denies that the provisions are intended to apply to individuals. One would have to check carefully to see whether what the provisions say corresponds with what the government says about them, as we have seen that often people draft legislation and tell the government something about it and when it is passed they claim that the law says something completely different.
